Due to recent asshattery & unchecked privilege, we’re going to all-moderated comments, at least for now.
In the meantime, some of you all might want to unpack that knapsack (& take a look at this too, as well as checking out the Privilege 101, Race Relations 101, & Privilege Checklists links on Shrub’s sidebar).
Thank goodness– I was thinking perhaps a moderation policy might be a good idea.
It’s unfortunate that it has to come to this 😦
I kinda figured it would come to this since a lot of people found out about this blog through VegNews, like myself. I’m just glad there are a group of people who think as I do. I’m also learning a lot. Keep up the good work. I’m a happy VOC.
What I find unfortunate is that this seems to stem from me trying to seek greater understanding from someone in a teachable moment (after being taken to task for how I presented what I thought was an important clarification), and instead I was totally shut down. No one has taken the time to drop the pretenses of trying to make this privileged person comfortable about his ignorance and to so starkly dress me down about how I came off with my (invisible to me) privilege, and it was an eye-opener. I wish was able to turn on a dime and become ultra-aware of how everything I say comes off to others and to proceed accordingly, but it is not that easy, obviously, and I image that it is a long process (also unfortunate).
So, I’m sad at how this has all turned out, considering that I was actively making an attempt to understand what I was doing wrong and how I could do better. Instead of growth and closer ties, it feels like the door is being closed on improved communication, but I am gathering that VoC is not the place for such things, and I will respect that.
Nevertheless, thanks for the motivation. I’m looking forward to continuing to read VoC posts, but I’ll try to refrain from commenting unless I can do so in a way that it’s obvious my privilege has been left at the door.
Eric — I can appreciate your intent, but part of the process of unlearning privilege in general is dropping the expectation that folks should be educating you. There are lots of resources out there. In addition, while this may be the first time you’ve been made aware of your privilege, for many POCs such encounters are numerous & nothing new or helpful; indeed, they’re usually really stressful for obvious reasons, & we are not obliged to continue such discussions if we don’t want to.
I began this blog as a place for vegans of color to connect; this is a POC-centric space, & while white folks may learn from stuff posted here — in fact, I hope they do — this is not a space about them, nor devoted intentionally to educating them.
While I don’t like policies on comments, I do find it disturbing that in my quest to understand veg*nism and possibly become veg*n, I can’t do that without having to interact with white people. Not that I don’t like white people, but I want to hear the words of other PoC.
Thank you for offering this active and valuable web resource. I wanted to just to clarify a couple things before adopting “vow of silence mode”:
You: “I can appreciate your intent, but part of the process of unlearning privilege in general is dropping the expectation that folks should be educating you.”
I didn’t have that expectation, as I made clear under the other post:
Me: “I can take responsibility for my need to educate myself, and much of what I have read online so far about de-constructing white privilege tells me more or less not to turn random people of color into my own personal Google, but to go learn for myself (books, other websites, etc.). That’s exactly what I plan to do.”
You: “In addition, while this may be the first time you’ve been made aware of your privilege…”
It’s not my first time at all, but after having read a few things and progressed to a certain point (or so I thought), my time became full with other developments, so my progress was, in effect, stunted. Re-orienting one’s world view in a minimal amount of spare time can be challenging, if worthwhile.
You: “…for many POCs such encounters are numerous & nothing new or helpful; indeed, they’re usually really stressful for obvious reasons, & we are not obliged to continue such discussions if we don’t want to.”
I think I get your meaning. Not to compare veganism directly (obviously it’s not a perfect analogy), but it’s kind of like a vegan message board or chat: That’s a protected space where we don’t want omnis crashing in on us. So, insofar as I can relate it to that, I get it, and I respect that.
Wishing you all the best,
Ugh, Eric… Eric, you are trying to be polite about it, but don’t you see what you’re doing? Listing out points: “Johanna, I’m going to shut up now, but first show you that: a) you’re wrong b) you’re wrong…”
THAT is a defensive response to being called out on privilege. And it keeps the conversation all about you. Besides, Johanna isn’t the only one who read your post here as a wish for education. It seems that way to me, too.
I don’t wish to get into an argument with you further because I don’t think it would be productive. But I do think, insofar as you really are interested in understanding your own privilege, that it might do some good for you to review the latest posts and see how much it has become about you.
That, right there, is something to ponder.
allen johnson has a great book, POWER, PRIVILEGE, AND DIFFERENCE, on general privilege stuff which i’ve mentioned a great while back on VOC comments. it outlines different types of defensiveness and denial, and for me, reading all those things helped box me into a place where i could better check privileges at the door aaand receive critique in a productive way. reading all this junk so far has screamed so many defensiveness tactics!
i’m with Ico on all points, including the non-arguing one. just throwin’ out some two cents. the end!
I agree w/Ico as well…